Monday, 18 March 2019

Story of Conversion to Iglesia ni Cristo

I am an attacker of Iglesia ni Cristo in the social media site until one day, I found the truth inside the Iglesia ni Cristo.

I was a Catholic Defender for a short time and I met a lot of INC members convincing me to join the Iglesia ni Cristo so that I may find the truth but I always refuse. One day, I met my classmate who is a member of Iglesia ni Cristo and sometimes we talked about our religion. He invited me to attend the Iglesia ni Cristo ”Pamamahayag ng Salita ng Diyos” but I refused. Days have passed, he invited me for a second time, but since he knows that I have a vacant time, I finally accepted his invitation. During the event, I was amazed that the minister uses not his own words but the words of God in the Bible. Inside the INC Chapel, people there are so disciplined males and females are separated. After that, I was interested to listen more about INC from the minister so my classmate introduced me to the minister in their local and the minister asked for my available schedule for the doctrine lessons. And finally, I am now baptized as a member of Iglesia ni Kristo after the painstaking explanation of the ministers about the words of God in the Bible and the truth about the Catholic Church and its unbiblical doctrines. I am inviting everyone who is not yet a member of INC to visit your nearest local to learn the truth. These are some few things I learned about INC and why INC is the true Church:

1. INC ministers use not their own words, but the words of God in the Bible.
2. INC is the most disciplined church where males and females are separated during worship services.
3. There are a lot of graven images inside the Catholic Church. The Bible prohibited the making of images and idols yet Catholics have a lot of it inside the church and in their houses.
4. INC does not kneel on images. In the Bible, the equivalent of kneeling is worshiping.

5. Catholics worship the saints and Mary.
6. INC teaches that the Father alone is the true God and the Trinity is not in the Bible.
7. INC teaches that Jesus is a man as what the Bible teaches but Catholics are making Jesus as God.
8. INC teaches that Jesus alone is the sole mediator as what the Bible says. But the Catholic Church is making their saints and Mary as mediators.
9. The church which Christ built was apostatized and the faithful Christians were killed by the false prophets after the last Apostle died.
10. The image of Christ we see today is not the real image of Christ. It is only taken from the painting of Leonardo Da Vinci whose model was the same model used to paint the image of Judas.
11.”Christ is God” doctrine was only invented in the Council of Nicea.
12. . Catholic Church has the two doctrines of the devil, forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meat
13. Christ commanded not to call anyone father but the priests are called fathers.
14. The Bible condemns praying in repetition, but the Catholics still pray in repetition (Rosary).
15. The Catholic Church was founded by Ignatius of Antioch in 107 A.D and not founded by Christ.

These are only a few reasons why I left the Catholic Church and joined the Iglesia ni Cristo. So, I want to invite everyone to visit and listen to the doctrines of INC that are found in the Bible.

________________________________________________________________________________

Sorry for the members of Iglesia ni Manalo who are reading this. The story you read above is not my real experience and I was never baptized in INC but there is so much truth about it for people who left the Catholic Church and joined the Iglesia ni Cristo. Those reasons for conversion above are the reality for those people who left the Catholic Church but of course, their conversion was the product of their ignorance.
I am addressing this to the members of Iglesia ni Manalo member who keep convincing me to join INC so that they may understand that I am aware of the things if I will listen to the INC doctrines, attend worship services (only if I am ignorant about the Catholic Church). And now I will now refute my so-called “Reasons of Conversion” so that everyone must understand that IGLESIA NI CRISTO IS NOT THE TRUE CHURCH:
1. INC ministers use not their own words but the words of the Bible?

This is also a common claim for those who become a member of INC. But the truth is, it is only for the sake of attraction. INC ministers are only preaching the interpretation of Felix Manalo of the Bible because they believe that only Manalo can interpret the Bible. And do not be deceived, INC teaching such as “Last Messenger of God in these Last Days” is not found in the Bible. The reason why an INC member says that the INC teachings are written in the Bible is that INC ministers are carrying a Bible all the time. No one can really preach the Bible using “Bible Alone”, every preacher must have always an interpretation whether it’s from him or from the others.

2. INC is the most disciplined church?

The discipline inside INC which is the separation of male and female during worship services is only a form of attraction. This attraction is known in the Bible as “Sheep’s Clothing” and Jesus warned about it (Matt 7:15). Discipline is one of the qualities of the true members of the Church and no wonder why INC is boasting the standards of discipline

3. Images were prohibited in the Bible?

It may look like that God prohibited the making of images in Exo. 25:3-4 but no. Even INC made a statue of Manalo without any command from God or from the Bible. With that alone, INC ministers are contradicting themselves. The truth is, God allowed the making of images for religious purposes (Ex. 25:18;Ex 37:7-9; 2 Chr 10:13; 1 Kings 7:29; Kings 6:23; Ezek 4:17-18). That is why; Catholics have images inside the church.

4. Kneeling means worshiping?

Two things are needed to know here:

a. Religious images of the Catholic Church are not idols. Idols mean false gods and the INC ministers are aware that Catholic Church teaches only one God, the Holy Trinity and calling the images of the Catholic Church as idols is already intellectual dishonesty, which means INC ministers are aware that they are lying.

b. Kneeling does not always mean worshiping; kneeling is also a sign to show honor, respect and sincerity. In fact, during ordination, ministers are kneeling in front of Manalo yet they deny they are not worshipping Manalo. With that, we can conclude that INC ministers are contradicting themselves from what they say with what they do.

5. Catholics worship Mary and the saints?

This is a lie from the INC ministers. Catholics worship God alone, saints and Mary are only venerated. Veneration means to honor and respect. INC is trying to insist that Catholics worship saints and Mary to make it look like Catholics are going against the Bible and to discourage Catholic members who are not so familiar with the teachings of the Catholic Church about Mary and saints.

6. Father alone is the true God and the Trinity is against the Bible?

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity states that there are three persons in one God. Each person is God, but there is only one God, not three Gods. This doctrine is found in the Bible. In John 14:26, Jesus is referring to the entire Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And the distinction he makes between them is quite definite. The Father sends. The Son comes to Earth. The Spirit teaches and inspire. The entire theology of the Trinity is present in this single verse.

7. Jesus is a man and not God?
The Catholic Church believes also that Jesus is a man. However, INC teaching Jesus is not God is a heresy back in the early church called “Arianism”. In the Bible, we can see a lot of verses telling that Jesus is also God.

Acts 20:28- Jesus is the one whose blood was shed.
Phil. 2:6-7 – He was in the form of God.
Jn 1:1-3- Jesus is the Word, who was God.
And many other verses: Rev 3:14; Jn 8:58; Acts 7:59; 1 Cor 1:23; 2 Pet 1:1; Jn 10:30-33; Jn 5:18; Lk 10:18; Mt. 11:27; Jn 14:6-10; Jn 17:3; Rev 22:13; Dt. 10:17

8. In the Catholic Church, saints and Mary are also mediators and not Jesus alone?

In 1 Tim 2:5, states that there is only one mediator Jesus Christ. Catholic Church believes that the saints and Mary and even us can be also mediators that is because we are the members of the body of Christ. And if we are the members of the body of Christ which is his church, then we can share the sole mediatorship of Christ. Mediator means “to go between” when a friend asks you to pray for him, you become a mediator between God and your friend. Anyone who says that that Mary and the saints cannot be a mediator and he accept prayer request, he is contradicting himself.

9. The church was apostatized after the last Apostle died?

The truth is, there was already an Apostasy during the time of Christ (see Jn 6:66). The teaching of Apostasy in INC is not originally from INC but from Mormonism. And it is also contrary to the promise of Christ to his church for he promised that “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”. So believing that Apostasy really happened is unfaithfulness of Christ for not believing his promises.

10. Christ’s image is also the image of Judas?

Da Vinci’s version of Christ was created in the 16th century, and nobody really cares who is the model of his painting. But what Inc ministers did not tell is, there were already pictures of Christ before Da Vinci painted the Last Supper. The earliest painting of Christ was painted on the 6th century and Da Vinci was not yet born to use the same model for Christ and for Judas.

11. “Christ is God” Doctrine was only invented in the Council of Nicea?

When controversy arises in the church, it should be settled in a council just like what the Apostles did in the whole chapter of Acts 15. What the bishops in the Catholic Church did was only following what the Apostles did when there are controversies. The controversy during the Council of Jerusalem in 50 A.D was about circumcision and the issue was settled. The controversy during 325 A.D in the council of Nicea was about the divinity of Christ, and the issue was settled. INC does not have a council, INC only follows the interpretation of Manalo.

12. The Catholic Church has the two doctrines of the demon (forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meat)?

a. The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage because it is a sacrament of Matrimony. Celibacy for the priest is not a doctrine but a discipline for the priest who follows Latin-Rite. Celibacy is a teaching of Christ, Matt. 19:12, “renounce marriage for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven”

b. Abstaining meat during Lent is a form of fasting. It is only a small part of following Jesus when he fasted for forty days and forty nights. Do INC fast like what Jesus did? No? They won’t even at least ignore their appetites.

13. Call no man Father?

If simply using the word “Father” to human being were wrong, we would not find the word used that way throughout the scriptures. But of course, we do again and again.

1 Cor 4:14-15 “I became your Father” Paul himself refers to himself with this word. An inspire author of the scriptures could not have done so if the word were to offense God.

14. Catholic Church was founded by St. Ignatius?

St. Ignatius was a disciple of John the Apostle. He is the Bishop of Antioch the place where the term “Christian” was first used. He was the one who first mentioned the term “Catholic Church” but he is not the founder. INC ministers did not tell INC members about this.

15. Catholics pray in repetition (Rosary)?

Rosary is a Scripture-based, and in praying it, we are not emulating pagan but the heavenly host:

Rev. 4:8- “Day and night they do not stop exclaiming: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come” St. John’s vision of heaven revealed that the angels and saints pray in repetitively. So obviously Jesus was objecting not to repetition but to the insincerity and emptiness of pagan words.

These are only a few things to learn for those who left the Catholic Church and joined the INC. A lot of them did not know so much about the Catholic Church and the Bible and because of that, INC successfully inserted some wrong information about the Catholic Church in the minds of the INC members. As a result, INC members today hate what they wrongly believe what the Catholic Teaches.

Friday, 1 March 2019

Winnie Vs Mark: Early Church of Christ was Apostatized

MARK VENTURA'S INTRODUCTION


Sa lahat ng manonood ng diskusyong ito, MAY I INTRODUCE MYSELF?I'm MARK VENTURA, a PROUD MEMBER of the CHURCH of CHRIST, a BLOGGER, and RESEARCHER. Dati po akong SAKRISTAN, dati ring JW Bible student, at naging YOUTH PASTOR pa sa BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN. At dahil sa PAGSASALIKSIK ko, ay NALAMAN ko ang DAKILANG KATOTOHANAN sa loob ng TUNAY na IGLESIA, ang IGLESiA NI CRISTO.Mga KAIBIGAN, mga KABABAYAN at MGA MAHAL na KAPATID, MAGANDA at PINAGPALANG ARAW sa LAHAT. Sa pagkakataong ito, ay TITINDIG AKO laban sa ISA sa mga AKING "GREATEST RIVAL" na si Mr. Winnie Bonilla Ibe na isang DEFENSOR KATOLIKO. At ang PAKSA natin na ating TITINDIGAN ay ang ukol sa PAGTALIKOD ng UNANG IGLESIA na ITINATAG ni CRISTO noong UNANG SIGLO. Sa ating PAGPAPATUNAY ay GAGAMIT tayo ng ILANG AKLAT KATOLIKO, mga KOMMENTARYO o RESEARCH ng mga BIBLE SCHOLARS at maging ng iba't ibang salin ng BIBLIA na MAGPAPATIBAY sa KATOTOHANAN. Malamang ay GAGAMITIN ng KALABAN ko ang CHOP CHOP OUT OF CONTEXT na PASUGO na kanilang kadalasan PINAGBABATAYAN ng AKUSASYON. INAASAHAN ko na BUKAS ang KAISIPAN ninyo sa mga MAPAPANOOD ninyo at nawa MAKATULONG sa INYONG PAGSUSURI.BUKAS po ang PINTO sa mga NAIS MAGSURI, maaari kayong magtungo sa aking BLOG, http://iglesianicristoibongmandirigma@wordpress.com o maaari rin kayong mag-email sa ibongmandirigma15@gmail.com. At i-LIKE at SHARE nyo rin ang aking OFFICIAL FB PAGE na nakapangalan sa akin. MAGTANONG, MAGSURI upang MALIWANAGAN kayo. Wala naman masama kung susubukan di ba? Inaanyayahan ko rin kayo na daluhan ang mga isinasagawang pag-aaral ng mga salita ng Diyos na malapit sa inyong lugar at maging sa aming mga pagsamba tuwing Miyerkules, Huwebes, Sabado at Linggo sa pinakamalapit na lokal po sa inyo. Nagagalak po kaming i-welcome kayo para sama-sama tayong magkamit ng tunay na kaligtasan sa loob ng tunay na bayan ng Diyos.Yun lang po, at maraming salamat.

 Winnie Bonilla Ibe' Introduction


My name is Winnie Bonilla Ibe a cradle Catholic. I started defending the faith since 15 years of age and now 47 years old.
This topic is THE VERY Foundation wherein the Catholic Church and INC differs. If this doctrine of apostasy is true as INC proclaims then Catholics must come out of the Catholic Church. On the other hand if INC’s doctrine of apostasy is mere fiction it follows that ALL the claims of Manalo for himself and his INC church are just made up stories or a myth! There should be no other choice but for them to come urgently to the BODY OF CHRIST- the Catholic Church! 
In this debate I will demonstrate WITHOUT A DOUBT that the charge that the very church founded by Christ was apostatised is NOT BASED ON THE BIBLE and FACTS.  
The mere statement from the Bible which says that someone or some turned away from the faith IS NOT EQUAL apostasy of the church.
Let me thank Mark for challenging me on this topic. I pray that he will not become my enemy but may I assist him in his journey towards the TRUTH. May our readers pray for me for wisdom and more charitable, clear and concise throughout this discussion.
Lastly, but more importantly, I thank God for this opportunity to share the TRUTH and my Catholic FAITH to others.
God bless po! 

Mark Ventura's Affirmative Presentation

 ANG PAGTALIKOD NG UNANG IGLESIA NI CRISTO
Posted on October 29, 2018 by Iglesia Ni Cristo: Ibong Mandirigma
Mahalagang malaman ng lahat ng tao ang kasaysayan ng Iglesiang itinatag ni Cristo noong unang siglo upang masagot ang katanungan na kung bakit Iglesia Katolika ang relihiyong kinagisnan ng marami sa atin. Noong nasa lupa pa ang Panginoong Jesucristo, hinulaan niya na ang magaganap na pagtalikod : 
“Lilitaw ang maraming bulaang propeta at ililigaw ang marami.” (Mateo 24:11, NPV)
Ayon kay Cristo, lilitaw ang maraming bulaang propeta at ililigaw ang marami sa Kaniyang mga alagad. Ano naman ang katumbas ng sinabi Niyang “ililigaw ang marami”, sa Mateo 24:10, ganito ang sinasabi sa atin :
“At dahil dito’y marami ang tatalikod sa kanilang pananampalataya. Mapopoot sila at magtataksil sa isa’t isa.” 
Ang katumbas ng ililigaw ang marami ay maraming tatalikod sa kanilang pananampalataya. Paano naman sila itatalikod ng mga bulaang propeta at sino ang mga tinutukoy ni Cristo na mga bulaang propeta? Ganito naman ang sagot pa sa atin ng Biblia :
Mateo 7:15: “Mangagingat kayo sa MGA BULAANG PROPETA, NA NAGSISILAPIT SA INYO NA MAY DAMIT TUPA, datapuwa’t sa loob ay mga lobong maninila.”
Ipinakikilala ni Cristo na ang mga bulaang propeta ay magdaramit tupa. Sino naman ang tupa na tutularan ng mga bulaang propeta? Ito pa sinasabi sa atin ng Biblia :
Juan 1:29: “Nang kinabukasan ay nakita ni Juan si JESUS na lumalapit sa kaniya, at sinabi, Narito, ANG CORDERO NG DIOS, na nagaalis ng kasalanan ng sanglibutan!”
Si Cristo pala ang tupa na tutularan ng mga bulaang propeta. Sino ba ang mga bulaang propetang ito? 
“ANG PARENG GAYAK SA PAGMIMISA AY NAKIKITULAD KAY JESUCRISTO noong umakyat siya sa bundok ng kalbaryo.” (Siya ang Inyong Pakinggan, ang Aral na Katoliko, p.195) 
Kung gayon, ang mga paring Katoliko ang tinutukoy ng Panginoong Jesucristo na mga bulaang propeta na magtatalikod ng marami. Paano nila itatalikod ang mga unang kaanib sa Iglesia Ni Cristo? Si Apostol Pablo ang magpapaliwanag sa atin sa 1 Timoteo 4:1, 3.
1 Timoteo 4:1,3: “Nguni’t hayag na sinasabi ng Espiritu, NA SA MGA HULING ANG IBA’Y MAGSISITALIKOD SA PANANAMPALATAYA, AT MANGAKIKINIG SA MGA ESPIRITUNG MAPANGHIKAYAT SA MGA ARAL NG MGA DEMONIO, … NA IPINAGBABAWAL ANG PAG-AASAWA, AT IPINAG-UUTOS NA LUMAYO SA MGA LAMANGKATI, na nilalang ng Dios upang tanggapin na may pagpapasalamat ng mga nagsisisampalataya at nangakakaalam ng katotohanan.” 
Ayon sa mga apostol, magsisitalikod ang mga alagad ni Cristo. Paano matatalikod? Sila ay makikinig sa mga aral ng mga demonyo: ang pagbabawal ng pag-aasawa at pagbabawal ng pagkain ng karne. Sino ba ang nagtataguyod ng ganitong klaseng aral?
Matitiyak natin na ang relihiyong nagtataguyod nito ay ang relihiyong tumalikod sa aral ng Diyos. At ang relihiyong ito ay hindi na ang tunay na Iglesia Ni Cristo :
“Ang disiplina ng Iglesia (Katolika) ay ipinatupad buhat pa sa pasimula, SA PAMAMAGITAN NG PAGBABAWAL SA PAG-AASAWA NG MGA SASERDOTE (Pari) PAGKATAPOS NA SILA AY MAORDENAHAN.” (Ang Pananampalataya ng ating mga Ninuno, p.396) 
“Sa ikalawang utos ay IPINAG-UUTOS NG SANTA IGLESIA (Katolika) sa atin na mag-ayuno at HUWAG KAKAIN NG ANUMANG LAMANGKATI AT KARNE sa mga araw na ipinagbabawal niya.” (Siya ang Inyong Pakinggan, ang Aral na Katoliko, p.139)
Pinatutunayan lamang ng katotohanang ito, na ang relihiyong ito ay hindi ang Iglesiang itinatag ng Panginoong Jesucristo, siyang naging bunga ng pagtalikod ng unang Iglesia Ni Cristo.
Ano naman ang gagawin sa mga hindi naitalikod o hindi nailigaw?
“Sa panahong ‘yon, kayo’y usigin at PAPATAYIN. Kapopootan kayo ng lahat dahil sa akin.” (Mateo 24:9, NPV)
Ang mga hindi nailigaw ay pinatay kaya nawalan ng mga tunay na kaanib ang unang Iglesia.
Ito ang mga patotoo ng kasaysayan ukol sa malawakang pagpatay ng Iglesia Katolika sa mga unang Cristiano :
“…ang Iglesia (Katolika) ay nagtatag ng isang tanging hukuman, ang Ingkisisyon Papa o Pangsanlibutang Ingkisisyon. Ang mahahalagang bahagi ng pamamaraan nito ay itinakda ng isang kalipunan ng mga batas na kapuwa pinagpatibay ni Papa Lucio III at Emperador Barbossa noong 1184. Ang mga maliliit na detalye ay idinagdag noong 1230. Ang gayong mga hukuman ng katarungang pang-espiritu ay itinatag sa mga dakong lubos na hinawahan ng mga maling aral… Itinuturing din ng bansa ang erehiya bilang isang kasalanan, sapagkat pinapaghihina nito ang mga saligan ng pangmadlang kagalingan. Ang parusa na itinakda ng mga batas panlupa ukol sa erehiya ay kamatayan sa apoy. Ang mga ito ay hindi kailanman ipinataw ng pansimbahang hukom.” (‘The Modern World’, p.344)
“Ang unang batas ng kasaysayan, pahayag ni Papa Leo XII, tulad ng aming binanggit nang nakaraan, ay upang magpahayag nang walang kasinungalingan at upang huwag magkaroon ng takot sa pagsasabi ng katotohanan. Bilang pagsang-ayon sa matalinong simulaing iyan, tahasan naming kinikilala ang pananagutan ng mga papa sa paggamit ng pagpapahirap at sa pagsunog sa libulibong mga erehe sa tulos. Ang pag papahintulot nila sa ganyang malupit at makahayop na mga pamamaraan ay hindi maitatatuwang isa sa pinakamaitim na mga batik sa talaan ng Banal na Tanggapan at mananatili hanggang wakas na isang dahilan ng pagkutya at kahihiyan sa kapapahan. Kahit tapatang aminin, na siya namang nararapat, na ang kanilang mga layunin ay mabuti at ang kanilang pagsusumakit ay para sa kapakanan ng Kaluluwa ng biktima, hayaang manatiling pananinindiganan na ang malupit at di makataong pamamaraan na ginamit ay hindi mapasusubalian.” (lbid, p.49) 
“Ang Iglesia (Katolika) ay hindi makaiiwas sa pananagutan ukol sa paggamit ng pagpapahirap ni sa pagsunog ng mga biktima sa tulos. Ang Iglesia sa katauhan ng kaniyang mga pontipise ang nananagot sa paggamit ng pagpapahirap; ang malupit na gawaing ito ay pinasimulan ni Inocencio IV noong 1252… Pinasisikapan ng pontipise na ipagtanggol ang paggamit ng pagpapahirap sa pamamagitan ng pagtuturing sa mga erehe bilang mga magnanakaw at mamama-tay-tao, paghahalintulad lamang ang kanyang tanging batayan.Ang batas na ito ni Inocencio IV ay muling pinairal at pinatibay ni Alejandro IV noong ika-30 ng Nobyembre,1259, at Clemente IV noong ika-3 ng Nobyembre,1265. Ni hindi makaiiwas ang Iglesia(katolika)sa pananagutan ukol sa pagpapasunog ng mga erehe sa tulos hanggang sa mamatay. Ang pagkukunwari lamang na ibigay ang biktima sa kapangyarihang sekular ay hindi makapaglilingid sa katotohanang ang mga papa ay paulit-ulit na nagpilit sa ilalim ng pagbabantang pagtitiwalag at pagbabawal sa mga pinuno, na igawad ang kaparusahang kamatayan sa mga erehe.” (Ibid.,p.47) 
Ayon sa mga apostol, kailan naman nangyari ito? Ganito ang pahayag sa atin ni Apostol Pablo : 
Gawa 20:29: “Aking talastas na pagalis ko ay magsisipasok sa inyo ang mga ganid na lobo, na hindi mangagpapatawad sa kawan;” 
Ano kaya ang ibig sabihin ni Apostol Pablo sa tinuran niyang “pag-alis”? Siya mismo ang magpapaliwanag nito sa atin : 
2 Timoteo 4:6: “Sapagka’t ako’y iniaalay na, at ang panahon ng aking pagpanaw ay dumating na.” 
Samakatuwid, pagkatapos ng panahon ng mga apostol at kapag sila’y namatay na, iyon ang panahon kung kailan tatalikod ang Iglesia Ni Cristo at hindi kataka-taka kung bakit ang Iglesia Katolika ang nakagisnan ng marami na relihiyon.


Winnie Bonilla Ibe 

FIRST QUESTION: 
Ginamit mo Ang Matthew 24:11 para sabihin mo na Ang Panginoon Jesus mismo ang humula sa pagtalikod ng KANYANG IGLESIA.
Let’s read from verse 3-11:
Matthew 24:3-11 NRSV
[3] When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" [4] Jesus answered them, "Beware that no one leads you astray. [5] For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah!' and they will lead many astray. [6] And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. [7] For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: [8] all this is but the beginning of the birth pangs. [9] "Then they will hand you over to be tortured and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. [10] Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. [11] And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.” 
Tanong: AYON SA BIBLE SA TALATA TRES, si Cristo ay nagbigay ng mga SIGNS NG KANYANG MULING PAGBALIK AT NG MALAPIT NG WAKAS NG MUNDO. ISA dito ay ang mga digmaan ( verse 6)at paglitaw ng mga bulaan propeta (verse 11).
Kailan ba naganap Ang pagtalikod ng marami; noong pagkamatay ng mga Apostol ba o kung saan malapit na ang pagbabalik ng Panginoon Jesus?
Please answer. Thanks.

MARK VENTURA: 

AYON SA BIBLIA, PAGKAMATAY ng mga APOSTOL, MATATALIKOD ang IGLESIA : 
Gawa 20:24-25,29-30: "Datapuwa't hindi ko minamahal ang aking buhay na waring sa akin ay mahalaga, maganap ko lamang ang aking katungkulan, at ang ministeriong tinanggap ko sa Panginoong Jesus, na magpatotoo ng evangelio ng biyaya ng Dios. At ngayon, narito, nalalaman ko na kayong lahat, na aking nilibot na pinangaralan ng kaharian, ay HINDI NA NINYO MULING MAKIKITA ANG AKING MUKHA. AKING TALASTAS NA PAGALIS KO AY MAGSIPASOK SA INYO ANG MGA GANID NA LOBO, NA HINDI MANGAGPAPATAWAD SA KAWAN; At magsisilitaw sa mga kasamahan din ninyo ang mga taong mangagsasalita ng mga bagay na masasama, upang mangagdala ng mga alagad sa kanilang hulihan."

SECOND QUESTION:  
You claim that Christ mentioned about the false prophets in Matthew 7:15 are the Catholic priests.
Here is the text:
Matthew 7:15-16 NRSV
[15] “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [16] You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? …
Can you tell me wether or not Christ actually referring to catholic priests with their vestments Or the “sheep’s clothing” is merely a metaphor?
Please refer to the same verse for the answer. 
Thanks.

MARK VENTURA: 

Maliwanag na SINASABI sa atin ng BIBLIA na ang mga BULAANG PROPETA ay TUTULARAN ang KASUOTAN ng KORDERO (Ang Panginoong Jesucristo) at BATAY sa SINIPI kong REPERENSIYA AKLAT KATOLIKO, ang mga PARI ang mga TINUTUKOY at KINATUPARAN ng HULANG ito ng BIBLIA.

THIRD QUESTION:   
 
Mark Ventura sinabi mo:
“ANSWER #1 .
AYON SA BIBLIA, PAGKAMATAY ng mga APOSTOL, MATATALIKOD ang IGLESIA :
Gawa 20:24-25,29-30: "Datapuwa't hindi ko minamahal ang aking buhay na waring sa akin ay mahalaga, maganap ko lamang ang aking katungkulan, at ang ministeriong tinanggap ko sa Panginoong Jesus, na magpatotoo ng evangelio ng biyaya ng Dios. At ngayon, narito, nalalaman ko na kayong lahat, na aking nilibot na pinangaralan ng kaharian, ay HINDI NA NINYO MULING MAKIKITA ANG AKING MUKHA. AKING TALASTAS NA PAGALIS KO AY MAGSIPASOK SA INYO ANG MGA GANID NA LOBO, NA HINDI MANGAGPAPATAWAD SA KAWAN; At magsisilitaw sa mga kasamahan din ninyo ang mga taong mangagsasalita ng mga bagay na masasama, upang mangagdala ng mga alagad sa kanilang hulihan."”
====================
Ito Ang tanong:
MAY SINABI BA SI SAN PABLO NA PAGKATAPOS MAMATAY LAHAT NG MGA APOSTOL AY MATATALIKOD ANG IGLESIA o ito ay SARILING UNAWA mo Lang? 
Saan ito sa BIBLIA WORD FOR WORD or sa kontexto?
MARK VENTURA: 

Maliwanag na SINASABI sa atin ng BIBLIA na ang mga BULAANG PROPETA ay TUTULARAN ang KASUOTAN ng KORDERO (Ang Panginoong Jesucristo) at BATAY sa SINIPI kong REPERENSIYA AKLAT KATOLIKO, ang mga PARI ang mga TINUTUKOY at KINATUPARAN ng HULANG ito ng BIBLIA.

FOURTH QUESTION

When was THE CHURCH FOUNDED BY CHRIST completely APOSTATISED, was it after the death of all the apostles? (Kailan namatay ang lahat ng mga apostles at sino sa kanila ang huling namatay?)
Pakisagot.
Thanks.

MARK VENTURA: 

YES, the APOSTATIZED were HAPPEN between SECOND to FOURTH CENTURY after the DEATH of the APOSTLES.

FIFTH QUESTION
You said:
YES, the APOSTATIZED were HAPPEN between SECOND to FOURTH CENTURY after the DEATH of the APOSTLES.”
My QUESTION:
If you and I lived in the second to third century, and assuming that the church was apostatised completely at the fourth century. Can we say that the church founded by Christ from the second to third century is STILL THE CHURCH OF CHRIST?

MARK VENTURA: 

WHEN WE SAY that the CHURCH FOUNDED by CHRIST on the FIRST CENTURY were APOSTATIZED, its NOT THE CHURCH OF CHRIST anymore. It should be called APOSTATIZED CHURCH or the CATHOLIC CHURCH.

SIXTH QUESTION
 
Ginamit mo ang 1 Timothy 4:1-3 at sinabi mo na ang pagsunod sa aral ng demonic tulad ng pagbabawal ng Hindi pagaasawa at pagbabawal sa pagkain ng Karne. 
Ang MGA SEMINARISTA namin ay pumapasok sa
Seminaries NA HINDI PINILIT, ay kung malaman na siya ay pinilit lang ay sila ay tinatanggal. Alam din nila na ang pagpasok sa seminary ay Alam ay pinili nila ang hindi magaasawa PARA SA KAHARIAN NG DIOS.
Matthew 19:11-12 TPT
[11] "Not everyone is meant to remain single-only those whom God gives grace to be unmarried. [12] For some are born to celibacy; others have been made eunuchs by others. And there are some who have chosen to live in celibacy for the sacred purpose of heaven's kingdom realm. Let those who can, accept this truth for themselves."
Tanong:
Ang HINDI PAGAASAWA BA PARA KAHARIAN NG Dios AY ARAL NG DEMONIO?

MARK VENTURA: 
 
UNA, MALING SALIN ang GAMIT mo. WALANG CELIBACY sa ORIGINAL GREEK ng MATTHEW 19:12. 
IKALAWA, PINATOTOHANAN ni REV. BERTRAND L. CONWAY na ang mga PARI ay INUTUSANG DI-MAG ASAWA o PINAGBAWALANG MAG-ASAWA NI PAPA LEO. SAMAKATUWID, UTOS ng TAO ang CELIBACY at HINDI UTOS ng DIYOS. Kaya, PINIPILIT sila at ito nga'y OBLIGATORY! 
“The earliest law ENFORCING CELIBACY was passed by the Council of Elvira (Canon 33) in Spain about the year 300. Bishops, priests and deacons were to be deposed if they lived with their wives and begot children after their ordination… By the time of Leo the Great (440-461) the law of clerical celibacy was OBLIGATORY throughout the west…” (THE QUESTION BOX p. 313)

SEVENTH QUESTION
 
Sinabi mo NA ang mga HINDI NATALIKOD AY PAPATAYIN GAMIT MO ANG MATTHEW 24:9.
Then you cited about the inquisition as proof that Catholic Church killed THE CHRISTIANS who remained faithful, yet the date mentioned in your references are 1184 AD AT 1230 AD.
Can you PROVIDE FROM HISTORICAL SOURCES who were those true Christians who were killed in those times and what doctrines they hold?

MARK VENTURA: 
 
In calling for a church-wide purification of memory, john paul acknowledged the mistakes and cruelty imbedded in church history, including the INQUISITION, the FORCED CONVERSIONS OF NATIVE PEOPLES IN AFRICA, AND LATIN AMERICA, AND SUPPORT OF THE CRUSADES, WHOSE VICTIMS INCLUDED JEWS, MUSLIMS, AND MEMBERS OF THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH.” Today. March 15, 2000
“The forced conversions of Jews in the Middle Ages and the history of anti-Semitism (despite official condemnations of both by church leaders) are evidence that the antithesis could easily overshadow the affirmation. The fateful loss of continuity with Judaism has, however, never been total. Above all, the presence of so many elements of Judaism in the Christian Bible has acted to remind Christians that he whom they worshiped as their Lord was himself a Jew, and that the New Testament did not stand on its own but was appended to the Old.”
“Also distinct from the medieval Inquisition, the Spanish Inquisition was established with papal approval in 1478 at the request of King Ferdinand V and Queen Isabella I. This Inquisition was to deal with the problem of Marranos, Jews who through coercion or social pressure had insincerely converted to Christianity; after 1502, it turned its attention to similar converts from Islam, and in the 1520s to persons suspected of Protestantism.” MSN ENCARTA


Wednesday, 29 August 2018

A response to Joe Ventilacion’s THE TRINITY AND THE INCARNATION: TRUTH OR FALLACY?

by Gabby Lopez

Joe Ventilacion is a well know debater in the INC and I recognized his capabilities of conditioning the mind of his listeners which almost made me convinced of what he is saying. In fact, he is the first debater of INC that know while looking for INC debate in youtube 3 years ago. He helped a lot to understand the teaching of INC and my curiosity of their reasoning against the Catholic Doctrine. Recently, an INC member brought up writing of Joe Ventilacion which I have not read before. It is a 3,000-plus-word article that is supposed to disprove the Catholic doctrine of Holy Trinity and the Incarnation which you can read here: THE TRINITY AND THE INCARNATION: TRUTH OR FALLACY?

Joe first shared that many people misunderstood their teaching and accused them of belittling Lord Jesus. I’ve noticed that the first few paragraphs are trying to prove that Jesus was Man. He also brought up some peoples experiences before they become Iglesia ni Cristo that used to believe that Jesus is God and they ultimately believe that Jesus is a man after they were presented with a biblical basis. He is saying it as if to let anyone think that the Catholic Church was only teaching that Jesus was God and the not a man.  Regardless of how many years Joe is opposing the Catholic Doctrine he still fails to distinguish the difference between INC teachings and Catholic teachings about Jesus’ nature.

“We are aware that Jesus is Man.”

Joe gives so much important in assertion that Jesus is Man rather than proving that Christ is not God. Obviously, those people who were converted to INC after asking questions in the INC are ignorant of the Catholic Doctrine. This is one of the problems with INC reasoning when it comes to the belief about Jesus’ nature, they fail to recognize the doctrine of Catholic Church that Jesus is Man. Catholics believe that Jesus is one person that posses two nature: human and divine, this makes Jesus as a divine person. Since Jesus is a person with two natures, Jesus is both Man and God. Whether Mr. Ventilacion accept or reject his, he should recognize that this is what the Catholic Church is teaching about the nature of Jesus. And bringing up biblical proof that Jesus is man is good but a waste in trying to prove that Catholic Church is wrong for we also agree to that. Jesus is MAN! AMEN!

“Jesus is a man, therefore, he is not God.”?

This is what follows in the minds of listeners of Joe. However, “Jesus is man therefore he is not God” is a wrong conclusion to come up with even if they bring up: Hos 11:9, Jn 4:24 and Luke 24:39. Before anyone decides to use that conclusion he must first know about nature. To simply say it, natures answers the question ‘what’. Man posses a human nature and God posses a divine nature. Natures are normally taken from parents for example, the son of dog is dog, the son of a cat is cat and surely, the son of God is God. However, Jesus did not have a human father so He could not be a human only. The substance of the body of Jesus was provided from the substance of Blessed Mary.  This is one of the examples that INC failed to or decided not to teaching among their members about natures and therefore they are misleading about the nature of Christ.

Now let’s consider the passages they used to deny the dual nature of Christ:

Hos 11:9 “..For I am God, and not a man”. Since Jesus is Man it seems that this verse gives the impossibility of Jesus as God but that is not true. INC failed to consider that this passage was written before Christ was born here on earth, it is the time when his Son did not assume the human nature yet. To have a rough analogy it is like saying I’m 15 years old, but of course years later will never be the same. It does not mean that God change, God remained as spirit in the person of the Father, just as God remained as saviour in the person of the Son.

Jn 4:24 “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth”. Since God is spirit and Jesus is a man, is he no longer qualified as God? Not entirely true for God as spirit remains true in the person of the Father, Jesus recognizes God as a spirit for he is also a man and since man is under God that’s why Jesus also prays to the Father.

Luke 24:39 “Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

Jesus is not trying to say here “See I have flesh and bones but God is spirit so I am not God, “The true context of this verse shows that Jesus indeed resurrected. Jesus here is trying to convince that he is not an apparition, but he indeed resurrected. This verse is not supposed to show up since it is an inevitable fact that Jesus is a man, and man has flesh and bones.

Here are two verses that should prove to everyone that Jesus does not only posses human nature
Philippians 2:6-8:
"...though he was by nature GOD, did not consider being equal to GOD a thing to be clung to,
but emptied Himself, taking the nature of a slave and being made like unto men.
And appearing in the form of man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient to death, even to death on a cross."

Elucidation of Philippians 2:6-8;
1. He was by nature GOD.
2. He took the nature of a slave (man).
3. He was made like unto men.
 4. He appeared in the form of man. If he is already man, why take a form which he already is?

Apostles believed that Christ was a man, and that belief still exists in the Catholic Church. What the INC taught that Jesus is only a man and not God is not what the Apostles taught but Felix Manalo’s private interpretation. INC might deny that they believe Jesus is only a man because they believe that Jesus is a very special man, but the subject is about the nature of Christ, not attributes. INC may only believe that Christ has one or two natures and since INC believe that Jesus has only one nature then it is only right to say that INC believes that Jesus is only a man (not God).


“If he were God, he could have said so when he was still here on earth”

It seems the INC beliefs are the only things that Jesus was speaking vocally such as he is man. Paul already gave the reason why Jesus did not ever say “I AM GOD” vocally. Paul describe Christ was doing “...Though he was by nature GOD, did not consider being equal to GOD a thing to be clung to”. Jesus gave us an example of humility and wants us to imitate his humility. Telling everyone that he is God would spoil his purpose of being an example of a humble man. That is why Christ sometimes addresses himself as the Son of Man instead of Son of God.

Hypostatic Union is grossly Unbiblical?


The oldest known icon of Christ Pantocrator - Saint Catherine's Monastery. The two different facial expressions on either side emphasize Christ's dual nature as both divine and human
Joe is really good in labelling the doctrines of the Catholic Church with fancy descriptions. Joe has huge guts in saying that there are no biblical verses that proves the Catholic Doctrines defined in the Church Councils instead of brining up how Catholic Church explained their doctrine and refute it. Is it really unbiblical or Joe just refused to bring up verses that prove the hypostatic union for his deception? Hypostatic Union is the mystery of the union of the divine nature of Christ with His human nature. Christ has two minds and two wills, united in the Divine Word. Fortunately, INC and Catholics both agree that Christ posses a human nature and he is man, so there will be and there should no dispute about that subject. The divine nature of Christ can be deduced in Jn 1:1"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD; and the Word was GOD." 'In the beginning was', implies time, since eternity has no beginning, and it has no ending. "The Word", was already in existence when GOD created time in Genesis 1:1-5. Consequently, the Word existed before the beginning of time, He thus being outside of time. The Word already 'was' in the beginning. The Word is therefore eternal. Joe may bring up a version that suits their favor because the Bible becomes the dependent of their doctrine. That version states the verse as “Word was divine”. Even if that version replaced the word “God” with “divine”, the irrefutable fact that the Word existed before time and being eternal in this single verse proves that Christ who is the Word of God posses a divine nature therefore, God.

“The Word is Just A Plan”! 

The cry of INC when they are presented with John 1:1. But if the Word is just a concept, a mere idea, or a plan, the proper pronoun should have been “It” not “He”.  John fully knows that the Word is a Person, for in verse 1:10, John refers to the “true light” as a “He”, a real person: “He was in the world, and the world came to be through him, but the world did not know him. He came to what was his own, but his own people 7 did not accept him” (Jn 1:10-11). Thus, if John refers to the true light as a “He” and to the Word also as a He, and this Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn 1:14), then there is no doubt that John really refers to the Word as a person and not a mere concept.

The very powerful verse that gives me so much confidence about the divine nature of Christ is when the Bible states the fact that Christ from heaven and those who came from heaven is ABOVE ALL!:

John 8: 23 “But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.”

1 Cor 15:47 “The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.”

John 3:31 “The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. ” emphasis

Teaching that Jesus is not God defies the verses above that gives so much clarity about Jesus.

“THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD! Jn 17:1,3”

“ ... 'Father, the hour has come. Give glory to your Son, so that the Son may give glory to you ... And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent"

This is the main passage where INC get the idea that Jesus could not be God since even Christ in his prayer was teaching the Father is the only true God, therefore Jesus could not be God. This is how shallow INC can only understand the meaning of Christ prayer and making this passage as basis Gods true nature without considering the other verses. INC failed to realize it is more than that. 

First of all, the text speaks about the glorification of the Father by the Son, and the Son by the Father (v 1).
Secondly, it speaks about the son having authority over all human beings and having the power to give eternal life (v2)
Thirdly, it speaks about the fact that knowing the one true God is inseparable from knowing Jesus Christ.

According to Hilary, Christ says, “you the only true God”, in a way that does not exclude another. He does not say without qualification, you the only, but adds and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. It is like saying: that they know you and Jesus Christ whom you have sent to be the one and only true God. This is a pattern of speaking that we also use when we say [in the Gloria]: “You alone, Jesus Christ, are the most high, together with the Holy Spirit.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit because whenever the Father and the Son are mentioned, and especially in matters pertaining to the grandeur of the divinity, the Holy Spirit, who is the bond of the Father and Son, is implied.

 According to St. Augustine, the Apostle said that “Christ [is] the power of God and the Wisdom of God” (1 Cor 1:24). Now it is clear that we cannot call anyone God unless he has divine power and wisdom. Therefore, since these people held that the Father was wisdom, which is the Son, they held further that the Father considered without the Son would not be God. And the same applies to the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Now let us not forget that the Holy Trinity states that there are three persons in ONE GOD. When Jesus prayed to the Father it does not mean Jesus was speaking to himself or prayed to himself as what Joe believed what it means. Christ as a separate person prayed to the Father for he is also man. Christ who posses’ divine nature and human nature also performs things that only God can do and things that man usually do. Here are some of the attributes of the two natures of Christ:

As GOD in His Divine Nature
As Man in His Human Nature
He is eternally begotten, Gen 1:1-5, Jn 1:1.
He was born into time, Lk 2:7.
He is worshiped, Mt 2:2,11, 14:33.
He worshiped the Father, Jn 17:1-26.
He was called God, Jn 20:28, Heb 1:8.
He was called man Mk 15:39, Jn 19:5.
He was called Son of God, Mk 1:1.
He was called Son of Man, Jn 9:35-37.
He is prayed to, Act 7:59.
He prayed to the Father, Mt 26:39.
He is sinless, 1Pet 2:22, Heb 4:15.
For our sake He made him to be sin, 2Cor 5:21.
He knows all things, Jn 21:17.
He grew in wisdom, Lk 2:52.
He gives eternal life, Jn 10:28.
He died, Rom 5:8.
He is the fullness of deity, Col 2:9.
He has a flesh and bone body, Luke 24:39.

“Image of God, not God”?

According to Joe, Jesus is the image of God and the image or picture is not the very nature of what it represents but this is not entirely true. According to St. Augustine, the image of a thing may be found in something in two ways. In one way it is found in something of the same specific nature; as the image of the king is found in his son. In another way it is found in something of a different nature, as the king's image on the coin. In the first sense the Son is the Image of the Father; in the second sense man is called the image of God; and therefore in order to express the imperfect character of the divine image in man, man is not simply called the image, but "to the image," whereby is expressed a certain movement of tendency to perfection. But it cannot be said that the Son of God is "to the image," because He is the perfect Image of the Father.

“Hypostatic Union was invented by the Church Council, not from the Bible!”

Surprise! Church Councils are biblical so does the hypostatic union. Though some people are quite surprised that some Catholic Doctrines are formulated by several councils, most INC members are not aware that such councils are biblical. Church Council exercising their authority is well written in Acts 15. The scene in Acts 15 was about some people who were teaching that “..Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.”(Acts 15:1-2) This is to clarifying whether the Mosaic Law is still to be followed by Christians. Though the apostles had so much debate and discussion, decisions about the matter is still to be decided by the council by not a sole person who hides in a dim lit room and after three days and three night, he came up with a doctrine and believed to be the only correct interpretation of the Bible like what the leader and founder of Iglesia ni Cristo, Felix Manalo did. Not only he defied the warning of St. Peter (2 Pet 1:20) about private interpretation, he came up with doctrines with his own interpretation of the Bible without any authority prior to what he interprets in the Bible as his so-called authority to preach for he is a messenger of God in these last days. Church Councils are only exercising their authority as the successors of the Apostles, “to bind and loose” Matt 18:18. And usually there are these people who introduce certain teachings that bring up confusions among Christians just like what happened in Acts 15 before a Church Council defines an official doctrine. Some people may pronounce the teachings defined in the council as unbiblical for they only became official after many years but it is what Christ have foreseen.
Doctrinal development is the on going teaching by the Holy Spirit to the only Church which Jesus Christ founded, the Catholic Church. Holy Scripture makes this abundantly clear:

"I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."
John 16:12-13 (emphasis)

These are powerful verses. We must examine them closely. Did you notice the futuristic tone in them? The word "will" indicates an emerging and ongoing process and with not a hint of an ending, and how many times was it repeated in just those two verses?

The first sentence implies that knowledge cannot come all at once, but slowly over time, simply because the wonders of GOD cannot be digested all at once by our puny human minds.

The last part is self-explanatory when it says, "things that are to come", obviously more future tense.

Here is more on the all-important second sentence which clearly says that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church into all the truth. That statement excludes tens of thousands of churches simply because truth is one. Only one Church could possibly have all the truth.

Thus, Holy Scripture, the Word of Jesus Christ Himself, has clearly laid the foundation for greater understanding of revealed truth over time.


In summary, calling the Catholic Doctrines unbiblical is just caused by lack of study on the Catholic Doctrine or total denial of proofs. There are a lot of INC member there who feels they have acquired a tantamount of knowledge about Catholicism and the Bible when the fact is they never have. No doubt that this was caused by attending a doctrine class in INC. Doctrines of the Catholic Church have explanation with Biblical proofs and this proof cannot be acquired by attending Bible study in INC or doctrine class. Biblical evidence for Catholicism was well explained by numerous Catholic Apologists and Saints whose work and writings are available online and they are more reliable than Felix Manalo. Catholics should be confident in defending the Catholic without fear for we always have answers to these detractors for hundreds of years.

Here are some few links where I have been studying the Catholic Faith:

Catechism of the Catholic Church
Catholic Answer
The Catholic Treasure Chest by Bob Stanly
Summa Theologica by St. Augustine



[Typography and grammar error may be found. I would like to give thanks to Mr. Quirino Bob Stanly and the CFD which I may have quoted their statements. Just inform me so that I may give you credits,]

Monday, 2 July 2018

Dissected and Refuted: "The Fact and Process of Apostasy"



An unofficial INC blog has posted a long argument about Apostasy. It is one of the well documented article about INC arguments. It might also be the same arguments ministers can provide. This is from a blog post in theiglesianicristo.blogspot.com and see how it is dissected and refuted.

Thursday, 11 August 2016

5 Simple Facts about Christ that INC ministers will not talk about.


1. He is the Last Messenger.
Nope, not Manalo but Christ. While INC ministers are preaching about Felix Manalo’s title “the Last Messenger of God in these days”, they choose not to preach the whole idea of Hebrews 1:1-2 which says
“In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.”
It’s very obvious that the title “Last Messenger in these last days is not referring to Felix Manalo but to Christ.”
2. He does not have a human father.
INC minister will just simply keep quoting about the humanity of Christ to reject the doctrine that Christ is God. While it is true that Christ is human, it does not rejects his divine nature nor make him “special man”. We have to consider the fact that it requires a father and a mother in order for a child to be born. The nature of the child is taken from both parents. Mary, the mother of Christ is human, that’ why Christ is human. But Christ’s Father is not human but God, possessing a divine nature, so Christ also have that divine nature. He is one person with two nature.
Since we know that he is God, he must be present before the time began and he must have a huge involvement during the creation. Where does he come from? Is his existence started here on earth or his existence is what started earth.
3. He is from heaven.
Who else is from heaven? Has there been any man that belongs to heaven and came here and still a man? INC has been hiding this very simple fact that should debunk their doctrine. The fact that Christ came from heaven means that he is God, the greatest of all.
John 3:31
“The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.”
Its look pretty obvious that Jesus was talking about God, because from above (heaven).
“But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.” John 8:23
This is such a striking truth that should destroy the falsehood of Manalo’s doctrine. While they have a lot of things to talk about the humanity of Christ, they have hidden a lot of things about the divinity of Christ.
4. Christ’s blood is God’s Blood.
Acts 20:28 is one the most quoted verses by INC minister and members, they are so proud that their name is found there. But here’s the problem, “Church of Christ” in Acts 20:28 can only be found in Lamsa Version, and the rest of the Bible versions they use for other verse says “Church of Christ”. Yes, they only pick the verses that fits to their teachings and who are they to verify which translation is correct and which translation is not correct?
This very verse they always quote proves that divinity of Christ by understanding its whole context.
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.- Acts 20:28
Elucidation: the Church of God was bought with (his)God’s blood. We know whose blood was spent for the forgiveness of sins and it was not the Father’s, but Christ’s, therefore Christ is God.
5. He owns what the Father owns.
I say “who owns the world”? You say “God”
“All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you." - John 16:15
I say who owns the world, you say “Christ”
P.S.. tbgc

Saturday, 30 July 2016

Responses on Allan's Answers to 10 Difficult Questions

Allan is an INC member who does a lot of defending of INC teachings. I composed 10 core questions which is more on the validity of F. Manalo, their founder. His answers are mostly mere claims and terrible ones. See it for yourself


Question #1. Ginamit mo ang mga sitas nga Isa.41:9-14, Isaiah 43:5, saan sa contexto ng mga sitas ka nakakuha ng idea na ang propesiya na ito ay may kinalaman sa Iglesia na itinatag ni Cristo?

Answer: #1. Gaya ng aking naging presentation, ang tinutukoy sa Isaias. 41:9 ay ang tinutukoy na "UOD NA JACOB" batay sa Isaias. 41:14. Hindi ito ang Jacob na Binhi ni Abraham SA LAMAN sapagkat batay sa Genesis 49:33 bago pa ang hula ni Isaias, ang Jacob na tinawag ding Israel na Binhi ni Abraham SA LAMAN ay malaon nang namatay. Kaya ang "UOD NA JACOB" na tinutukoy ay ang "BINHI NI ABRAHAM SA PANGAKO". Napakaliwanag nang nakasulat sa Galacia 3:29 na ang mga KAY CRISTO ay mga Binhi ni Abraham sa pangako. Sino ang tinutukoy na mga Kay Cristo? Naniniwala ako na hindi ka tututol na ito ang mga kaanib sa Iglesia Ni Cristo Galacia 1:22, NPV. Kaya maliwanag na 'yung hula ukol sa LINGKOD NA TATAWAGIN AT PIPILIIN NG DIYOS NA MULA SA MGA WAKAS NG LUPA NA TINATAWAG NA "UOD NA JACOB" AY TUMUTUKOY SA TAONG MANGUNGUNA SA MGA WAKAS NG LUPA O MGA HULING ARAW SA PAGTATANYAG NG IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

Critic: It's true that the term "Worm Jacob" is referring to the people of God and not necessarily sons of Abraham in flesh but also to believers of Christ. But never in the context that we can extract a slight idea that it talks about prophecy on rebuilding of the church built by Christ.

So to avoid the shame, Allan is jumping to a conclusion without any reasonable premise that:  "UOD NA JACOB" AY TUMUTUKOY SA TAONG MANGUNGUNA SA MGA WAKAS NG LUPA O MGA HULING ARAW SA PAGTATANYAG NG IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

__________________________

Question #2. Alin sa lahat ng mga sitas mo ay nag bigay idea na may paparating na pag litaw ulit specifically sa Iglesia na itinatag ni Cristo
Answer #2. Ang mga ginamit kong mga sitas ay MAGKAKAUGNAY at ginamit ko lahat upang patunayan na MAY LILITAW NA SUGO NG DIYOS SA MGA WAKAS NG LUPA O SA MGA HULING ARAW UPANG ITANYAG AT IPANGARAL ANG IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

The answer is obviously a mere assertion without biblical verses to support his claim. What's much worse is, I was only asking for idea that can be taken from multiple verses and not literally looking for exact words. This is because we can never see any idea that from that Bible about the re-emergence of a church for any reason, the only emergence Jesus was talking about was emergence of false prophets/teachers which perfectly fits to F. Manalo. Infact Jesus even said |

"And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age" Mt. 28:20

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Question #3. Kung ang Uod na Jacob ay tumutukoy sa mga sumasampalataya ni Cristo, saan ka kumuha ng ideya na may Sugo na may tinutukoy sa mga Propesiya?

Anwer #3.Sapagkat MAY INIATANG NA GAMPANIN kaya natitiyak natin na ang HINUHULAAN AY SUGO. Katunayan kung babasahin natin ang Isaias 41:15 ay heto ang nakasulat "Narito, aking ginawa kang bagong kasangkapang panggiik na matalas na may mga ngipin; iyong gigiikin ang mga bundok, at didikdiking durog, at iyong gagawin ang mga burol na parang ipa." Ang isa sa trabaho ng Sugo na lilitaw sa MGA WAKAS NG LUPA BILANG ISANG KASANGKAPANG PANGGIIK ay GIIKIN ANG MGA BUNDOK AT ANG MGA BUROL NA PARANG IPA. na tumutukoy sa mga pamuan ng kadiliman o sa maling relihyon (Efeso 6:12).

As we see, we cannot get any slight relevance from the verse Allan shows to what he was saying which is about Sugo:

Isaias 41:15 ay heto ang nakasulat "Narito, aking ginawa kang bagong kasangkapang panggiik na matalas na may mga ngipin; iyong gigiikin ang mga bundok, at didikdiking durog, at iyong gagawin ang mga burol na parang ipa."

INC members do always have answers when asked, but unfortunately, wrong answers. 

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Question #4.Kung ang WAKAS NG LUPA ay tumutukoy sa panahon at hindi lugar,Ang Reyna ng Timugan ba ay galing sa panahon ng Unang Pandaigdig na Digmaan (July 27, 1914). May natala ba sa kasaysayan na galing July 27, 1914 ang Reyna ng Timugan?

”Magbabangon sa paghuhukom ang reina ng timugan na kasama ng lahing ito, at ito'y hahatulan: sapagka't siya'y nanggaling sa mga WAKAS NG LUPA upang pakinggan ang karunungan ni Salomon;..” (Mateo 12:42)
Answer #4: Kaibigan, ang presentation ko ay ukol sa Isaias 41:9,14. Talagang ang stand ng Iglesia Ni Cristo sa Isaias 41:9 at sa Isaias 43:6 ang "ENDS OF THE EARTH " o "MGA WAKAS NG LUPA" ay tumtukoy sa panahon.. Wala kang mababasa sa presentation ko na ginamit ko ang Mateo 12:42.
Para patunayan ko sa iyo kaibigan na magkaiba ang tinutukoy na "MGA WAKAS NG LUPA" sa Isaias 41:9 at sa ginamit mo na Mateo 12:42 ay gamitin natin ang GOOD NEWS BIBLE (Catholic edition in Septuagint order)
Ganito ang pagkakasulat sa Isaiah 41:9
9I brought you from the ENDS OF THE EARTH;
I called you from its farthest corners
and said to you, ‘You are my servant.’
I did not reject you, but chose you.
Paano isinalin ang Mateo 12:42 sa saling ito? "ENDS OF THE EARTH' din ba?
42On Judgement Day the Queen of Sheba will stand up and accuse you, because she travelled all the way from her country to listen to King Solomon's wise teaching; and I assure you that there is something here greater than Solomon!
Wala na po 'yung "ENDS OF THE EARTH" at iyan ay mula sa saling GOOD NEWS BIBLE (Catholic edition in Septuagint order)
Kaya kung gagamitin natin ang CATHOLIC EDITION NG GOOD NEWS BIBLE ay maliwanag na MAGKAIBA ANG TINTUKOY SA ISAIAS 41:9 AT MATEO 12:42.

Allan obviously messed up with the paraphrasing here. In attempt to proving that "Ends of the Earth" refers to time, not place, he brought up the GNB version of  Matt 12:42. Before we point out the problem lets compare NIV and GNB

"The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here." Matthew 12:42 NIV

"On Judgement Day the Queen of Sheba will stand up and accuse you, because she travelled all the way from her country to listen to King Solomon's wise teaching; and I assure you that there is something here greater than Solomon!"-Matthew 12:42 GNB


If you take a look a it very carefully, in GNB, the "ends of the earth" was not replaced with "Judgement Day", but "all the way from her country". Therefore, in both Mt.12:42 and Is.41:9, the term "Ends of the Earth" refers to a place not time as what Manalo's interpretation to make him a messenger.

This is really one of the terrible errors Allan has done so far. 

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Question #5.Ginamit mo ang sitas sa Mateo 24:3-33, at sa verse 4-6, ay ito ang sabi
“4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed.”
Sinabi dito lilitaw ang mga bulaang propeta at ito rin ang panahon na sisiklab ang mga digmaan. Tanong ko ay, may kilala ka bang mang-aaral na lumitaw sa panahon digmaan noong 1914 maliban kay Felix Ysagun Manalo?

Answer #5 . Ang ginamit ko kaibigan ay Mateo 24:3 , 33 at Mateo 24:6-8.
Heto at isisipi ko ulit ang bahagi ng aking naging presentation diyan:
"Alin ang tinutukoy na "MGA WAKAS NG LUPA"? Ito ang panahon na malapit na ang pagparito ni Cristo o ng katapusan ng sanglibutan. Ang WAKAS NG LUPA ay ang Mismong Katapusan ng sanglibutan at ang “MGA WAKAS NG LUPA” ay ang panahon na si Cristo ay nasa mga pintuan na o malapit nang dumating.
“At samantalang siya'y nakaupo sa bundok ng mga Olivo, ay nagsilapit sa kaniya ng bukod ang mga alagad, na nagsisipagsabi, Sabihin mo sa amin, kailan mangyayari ang mga bagay na ito? at ano ang magiging tanda ng iyong pagparito, at ng katapusan ng sanglibutan?
Gayon din naman kayo, pagka nangakita ninyo ang lahat ng mga bagay na ito, ay talastasin ninyo na siya'y malapit na, nasa mga pintuan nga.” (Mat. 24:3,33)
Ano ang mga palatandaan na ang Panginoong Jesucristo ay nasa mga pintuan na o panahon na ng “MGA WAKAS NG LUPA”?
“At mangakakarinig kayo ng mga digmaan at mga alingawngaw ng mga digmaan; ingatan ninyo na huwag kayong magulumihanan: sapagka't kinakailangang ito'y mangyari datapuwa't hindi pa ang wakas. Sapagka't magsisitindig ang bansa laban sa bansa, at ang kaharian laban sa kaharian; at magkakagutom at lilindol sa iba't ibang dako. Datapuwa't ang lahat ng mga bagay na ito ay siyang pasimula ng kahirapan.” (Mat.24:6:8)
Ang isa sa mga palatandaan ay ang DIGMAANG UMAALINGAWNGAW. Isang DIGMAAN na AALINGAWNGAW O MAPAPABALITA. Kung mapapansin pa natin “sapagka't kinakailangang ito'y mangyari datapuwa't hindi pa ang wakas”. Bakit? Sapagkat may magaganap pa na panibagong Digmaan “Sapagka't magsisitindig ang bansa laban sa bansa, at ang kaharian laban sa kaharian;”. Ang katuparan nito ay ang UNANG DIGMAANG PANDAIGDIG (1ST WORLD WAR) na sumiklab noong July 27,1914 at ito ay sinundan ng IKALAWANG DIGMAANG PANDAIGDIG (2ND WORLD WAR). Ang UNANG DIGMAANG PANDAIGDIG ay tinawag ng kasaysayan na “the war to end all wars” (Story of the Great War, edited by Francis J. Reynolds, et al. New York: P.F. Collier and Son, 1916. Vol. 2, p. 291)."
Kaya para sagutin ko ang tanong mo na
"Sinabi dito lilitaw ang mga bulaang propeta at ito rin ang panahon na sisiklab ang mga digmaan. Tanong ko ay, may kilala ka bang mang-aaral na lumitaw sa panahon digmaan noong 1914 maliban kay Felix Ysagun Manalo?"
Wala akong tinindigan at ipinahayag sa aking presentation NA MAY SPECIFIC NA LILITAW NA BULAANG PROPETA NOONG JULY 27, 1914, KUNDI ANG PINATUTUNAYAN KO AY MAY LILITAW NA TUNAY NA SUGO SA MGA WAKAS NG LUPA NA ANG ISA SA PALATANDAAN AY ANG DIGMAANG UMAALINGAWNGAW NA SUSUNDAN NG ISA PANG DIGMAAN NA ANG KINATUPARAN AY ANG 1ST WORLD WAR NA SUMIKLAB NOONG JULY 27,1914 AT SA PETSANG ITO NAI-REHISTRO ANG IGLESIA NI CRISTO NA SIYANG OPISYAL NA PAGKILALA NG BANSANG PILIPINAS UKOL SA KANYANG PANGANGARAL AT IPINANGANGARAL NA IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

The very reason why they believe that Felix Manalo is a messenger is also the reason why Felix Manalo is a false prophet. In trying to connect that "ends of the earth" is in relevance to near "judgement day", it will end up that F. Manalo came just in the right time as what Jesus mentioned when the false prophet will emerge and that is when there are rumors of wars exactly July 27, 1914.

Allan is playing blind here. Yikes.

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Question #6. Sinasabi mo sa iyong presentasyon
“ Siya ang tinutukoy na "UOD NA JACOB"(Isa.41:14)”
Sino itong “SIYA” na tinutukoy mo? At saan sa context ng sitas mo ito kinuha ang tinutukoy mong “SIYA”?

Answer #6: Para po maliwanag ay sipiin ulit natin ang aking sinabi sa bahaging iyan:
"Pinatutunayan ng Biblia na may Lingkod Siyang tinawag at pinili na LILITAW sa "MGA WAKAS NG LUPA".
“Ikaw na aking hinawakan mula sa mga wakas ng lupa, at tinawag kita mula sa mga sulok niyaon, at pinagsabihan kita, Ikaw ay aking lingkod, aking pinili ka at hindi kita itinakuwil;”(Isaias 41:9)
Siya ang tinutukoy na "UOD NA JACOB"(Isaias 41:14)
“Huwag kang matakot, ikaw na uod na Jacob, at kayong mga tao ng Israel; aking tutulungan ka, sabi ng Panginoon, at ang iyong Manunubos ay ang Banal ng Israel.”
"Yung salitang SIYA ANG TINUTUKOY NA "UOD NA JACOB" ay tumutukoy sa BINABANGGIT NA HULA SA Isaias 41:9. Ipinakikita ko dun kung sino ang tinutukoy sa Isaias 41:9, ang tinutukoy dun ay yung tinutukoy na "UOD NA JACOB" sa Isaias 41:14. Nasa INTRODUCTION part pa lang ako niyan kaibigan at NATURAL, VERY OBVIOUS na ang tintindigan namin na mga Iglesia Ni Cristo, 'yan ay NATUPAD SA KATAUHAN NG KAPATID NA FELIX MANALO AT SA KANYANG GAWAIN PINASIMULAN AT ITINAGUYOD.

His answer to this question is terribly empty. So just because its natural and very obvious?
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Question #7.Nag karoon na ba ng depinisyon ang salitang “far east” sa panahon ng lumang tipan? At ano ito?

Answer #7: Kung ang tinutukoy mo ay 'yung tinitindigan namin na "far east" na "MIZRACH" sa Hebreo ay 'yung nasa Isaias 43:5 at Isaias 46:11. Kaibigan 'yun po ay hula at ang Pangalang Pilipinas ay noon lamang 16th Century samantalang ang kabuuan ng Biblia ay nayari o naisulat na 1st Century pa lang. Kaya kung ang tanong mo ay nangangahulugan na hinahanap mo sa akin na ipakita ko sa iyo sa Lumang Tipan na Pilipinas nga ang katuparan ng "far east" sa Isaias 43:5 at Isaias 46:11 ay TILA NALIMUTAN MO YATA ANG KASAYSAYAN NG PILIPINAS.
Naninindigan kami na ang kinatuparan nito ay ang Bansang Pilipinas sapagkat hindi lamang sapagkat ang Pilipinas ay nasa MALAYONG SILANGAN kundi sapagkat dito lumitaw ang Iglesia Ni Cristo sa panahong itinakda ng hula, sa petsa ng Biblia ay "MGA WAKAS NG LUPA", sa petsa kalendaryo ay "JULY 27, 1914". Walang ibang dako o bansa sa MALAYONG SILANGAN na may lumitaw na Iglesia ni Cristo noong July 27,1914 kundi sa bansang Pilipinas lamang. Kaya tinitindigan namin na ang kinatuparan ng "FAR EAST" sa Isaias 43:5, Isaias 46:11 ay ang Pilipinas KAYA ANG KAPATID NA FELIX MANALO AY TUNAY NA SUGO NG DIYOS SA MGA HULING ARAW O SA MGA WAKAS NG LUPA.

Allan jumped to a conclusion again and did not give any standard reference for the meaning of "far east". He believes it Philippines just because.

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Question #8. Kung ang salitang “star bucks” na ibig sabihin isang literal na bituin na pera ay iba sa salitang “StarBucks” na ibig sabihin isang coffeehouse nang dahil ang unang salita ay isang common noun at ang pangalawa ay isang proper noun. Ano naman ang kaibahan sa salitang “far east” sa salitang “Far East.
Answer #8: Hindi ako authority diyan pero ang isasagot ko diyan ay ang general definition ng proper noun and common noun. Heto ang sinasabi ng link na ito:
Proper Nouns
These name specific people, places, things, or ideas.
They begin with a capital letter.
Sometimes, they contain two or more important words.
Common Nouns
They name people, places, things or ideas that are not specific.
They do not need to start with a capital letter unless they begin in a sentence.
Link:http://www.english-grammar-revolution.com/proper-nouns.html

To let Allan know,

"far east" is a common noun, it is simply referring to a direction and distance, nothing specific.
"Far East" on the other hand is a proper noun, this particular proper noun only came up around 12th century which refers to a group of country including Phil.

but what we can read in the Bible is "far east" (James Moffat) though rarely used, we can not give it a meaning which was only defined around 12th century.


The term Far East came into use in European geopolitical discourse in the 12th century, denoting the Far East as the "farthest" of the three "easts", beyond the Near East and the Middle East. For the same reason, Chinese people in the 19th and early 20th centuries called Western countries "Tàixī (泰西)"—i.e. anything further west than the Arab world.-Wiki
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Question #9. Gumamit ka ng reperesnya upang mapatunayan na ang Pilipinas nga ay kabilang sa Far East na na ani mo ay tinutukoy sa Bibliya. Tanong ko ay, may reperensya ka ba sa sinasabi mo na ang Uod na Jacob ay ang Iglesia ni Cristo na naitayo noong 1914 sa Pilipinas?

Answer #9: Una, liliwanagin ko lang. Kung mayroon mang naitayo noong 1914 ang Kapatid na Felix Manalo ay ANG MGA LOKAL O KONGREGASYON NG IGLESIA NI CRISTO AT HINDI ANG IGLESIA NI CRISTO. Pangalawa, ang katuparan ng "UOD NA JACOB" na ang REFERENCIA KO AY BIBLIA batay sa Isaias 41:9,14 ang KINATUPARAN AY ANG KAPATID NA FELIX MANALO NA SIYANG NANGARAL NG IGLESIA NI CRISTO. At para patunayan na Iglesia Ni Cristo nga ang kanyang ipinangaral, ang magiging referencia ko ay REHISTRO AT IBA'T IBANG BABASAHIN NA IPINANGANGARAL NG KAPATID NA MANALO ANG IGLESIA NI CRISTO UPANG TUMESTIGO SA SINASABI NG HULA SA BIBLIA.
Sa ikaliliwanag lamang po, HINDI MGA AKLAT REFERENCIA ANG SALIGAN NG AMING PANANAMPALATAYA NA ANG KAPATID NA FELIX MANALO AY SUGO NG DIYOS SA MGA HULING ARAW KUNDI ANG MGA SALITA NG DIYOS NA NAKASULAT SA BIBLIA. GUMAGAMIT LAMANG KAMI NG AKLAT REFERENCIA UPANG TUMESTIGO ANG MGA ITO NA NATUPAD ANG HULA SA BIBLIA AT SA GAYON AY HINDI MAGING SELF SERVING ANG PAGHAHAYAG NG IGLESIA NI CRISTO NG KATOTOHANAN.
Kung ang tintutukoy mong REFERENCIA ay aklat na nagpapatunay na si kapatid na Felix Manalo ang katuparan nang "UOD NA JACOB" sa Isaias 41:9,14, KUNG MAY GAGAWA "NUN NA HINDI KAANIB SA IGLESIA NI CRISTO EH NAPAKALAKI NG POSIBLIDAD NA 'YUN AY AANIB NA DIN SA IGLESIA NI CRISTO NA IPINANGARAL NG KAPATID NA FELIX MANALO at kung GAGAMITIN NA REFERENCIA ANG KANYANG AKLAT, ABA MAGIGING SELF SERVING NA 'YUN AT KUKUWESTIYUNIN MO TIYAK ANG MAGIGING PAGGAMIT NAMIN 'NUN KUNG SAKALING MAGKAGANUN. TIYAK NA sasabihin mo na KAANIB KASI SA INC ANG GUMAWA NIYAN.

What Allan wants to us to know that INC is the worm Jacob is simply because F.Manalo was preaching, INC was registered on that specific time. No proper answer was given.
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Question #10. Naniniwala ka ba na may kakahayan si Cristo na protektahan laban sa mga bulaan propeta na pumapasok sa kanyang Iglesia na syang tinutoring bilang, Katawan ni Cristo, Asawa ni Cristo, Kaharian ng Langit, Banal at Walang Kapintasan? Oo o Hindi.

Answer #10. OO SA PAMAMAGITAN NG TAPAT NA PAGSUNOD NG MGA KAANIB SA IGLESIA SA MGA UTOS O ARAL NG PANGINOONG DIYOS NA ITINURO NI CRISTO MAGAGAWA NI CRISTO PROTEKTAHAN ANG IGLESIA. Gaya nang nakasulat po dito kaibigan:
" 27Dinirinig ng aking mga tupa ang aking tinig, at sila'y aking nakikilala, at sila'y nagsisisunod sa akin: 28At sila'y binibigyan ko ng walang hanggang buhay; at kailan ma'y hindi sila malilipol, at hindi sila aagawin ng sinoman sa aking kamay. 29Ang aking Ama, na sa kanila ay nagbigay sa akin, ay lalong dakila kay sa lahat; at hindi sila maaagaw ninoman sa kamay ng Ama." (Juan 10:27-29)
Hindi lamang si Cristo ang po-protekta kundi maging ang Ama. Hindi sila maaagaw ng mga BULAANG PROPETA sa kamay ni Cristo at ng Ama KUNG TAPAT NILANG DIRINGGIN ANG MGA KAUTUSAN NI CRISTO. Kaya ang Unang Iglesia Ni Cristo ay NAGING GANAP ANG PAGTALIKOD DAHIL HINDI NAKAPANINDIGAN ANG LAHAT SA MGA KAUTUSAN NI CRISTO. Pumayag silang makapasok at maghari sa loob ng Iglesia ang mga maling aral, ang aral ng mga demonyo na ayon sa I Timoteo 4:1,3 ay IPINAGBABAWAL ANG PAG-AASAWA AT IPINAG UUTOS NA LUMAYO SA LAMANG KATI O KARNE na ang PANGUNAHING NAGTATAGUYOD NITO AY ANG IGLESIA KATOLIKA. Kaya KUNG MAY LUMITAW MAN NA IGLESIA KATOLIKA AY SA DAHIL ITO ANG NAGING BUNGA NG PAGTALIKOD NG UNANG IGLESIA.

Allan's answer is LABAN-BAWI, he said he's faithful to Christ that he can protect his church but believes that it was apostatized after less than 100 years. A man who truly believes that Christ can protect his church from teaching errors, then he should be looking for an old church that exists from the time of Christ up to now.

Allan is like trusting that the roof of his house can handle the rain but uses umbrella inside his house.